Thursday, March 15, 2012

31,000 More Like 700

Anyone who had been confused into thinking there were 31,000 specific allegations of voter fraud from the last Canadian election, be aware that number is actually more like 700. The other 30,300 are just spam complaints from a left wing online form letter filled out by people who want an election mulligan and do not refer to specific incidents. The statement today by Elections Canada that they were investigating 700 "similar" complaints had several media members very excited that there are indeed some real allegations on top of just spam. Terry Milewski was pretty jazzed up when he reported the "new" information; and I say "new" with caution because we don't know when exactly all of these specific complaints were collected. There were dozens, if not hundreds of complaints to the Guelph EC office on election day regarding misleading calls. They have been investigating this for a while now.

Considering that Pat Martin has already informed us that 10,000 robocalls (which insiders would call a "blast") costs less than $200, that 700 number could and should be much larger, whether Pierre Poutine ordered multiple blasts or just one. The excitement shown by Batman and Robin (et all) was due largely to the confirmation that real complaints exist, and that it's not all just spam (even if 700 is less "sexy" than 31,000). Be careful not to hold your breath waiting to find out how many of the 700 "similar" allegations are actually complaining about real fraud.


  1. One must remember that since it was the Conservatives who were initially blamed for the robocalls that in the delusional minds of the Liberals and NDP (Lizzie May doaesn't count because she is so far past delusional as to live in another universe.) 700 becomes 31,000. Had it been the Liberals or NDP followers who received these calls, 31,000 would translate to 1.
    To all left-wingnuts: next faux scandal please.

  2. As you said, Iceman, Terry Milewski was all excited about the results of their -- CBC's -- investigation. They apparently see a pattern. But what they and no one else has been able to explain:
    • How come in Guelph, as you pointed out in a previous thread, was there such a surge in favour of the Liberals?
    • How come some calls apparently also went into ridings that are solidly Conservative, like Rob Nicholson's?
    • And why the use of the "Pierre Poutine" moniker? Why not a more normal sounding name?

    I have no answers but I'm still convinced that this has been orchestrated to discredit the Conservatives and especially the PM.
    -- Gabby in QC

  3. Your exactly right Gabby, another attempt by the opposition, and the ever lovin left media, to discredit the PM and this Conservative government. Problem is, the Conservatives and Prime Minister Harper are so far above these fools, in every way shape and form, they never stand a chance.

    Kinda like bringing a knife to a gun fight, except the left always forget the knife.....


  4. Yeah, no doubt Mildewski and his fellow comrades in the extreme left media are out to "get" the Conservatives and the PM. Mildewsji and his comrades are at WAR with the Government Canadians elected, and the first casualty of war is the truth. Mildewski and his fellow media comrades are operating under the false pretense that the Conservative Government is just as corrupt and morally bankrupt as the party Mildewski works for, the "Liberals"... thats why Mildewski always looks like an impotent fool, forever chasing only one side of the story, the side that supports the flawed, overtly biased media generated narrative.

  5. remember guys some of those complaints may not even be real complaints. some may be people at the polling stations phoning in to get the rules because they have someone that is not from there polling station voting there. so they phone in to see what the rules are. I know we phoned into ec to find out about that because I voted at a different voting station but same riding. which is legal you just need id and someone to vouch for you.

    1. Sorry Roy, that is not legal. The Elections manual clearly states, "to vote an elector must be an ordinary resident within a polling division".

      The person vouching is supposed to be vouching that they know you AND that you live in the polling division. Or to quote the book "another elector from the same electoral division and who has acceptable proof of ID."

      Sorry bud, you broke the law. Or at least the election workers that facilitated you did not know the law.

    2. My husband and I got TWO voter cards each - all four had voting stations in a different town than we live in. We thought that was weird so on election day, we went to the polling station in our town and explained. The officials said there were many cards that were wrong and as long as we showed ID, we were to vote there..

      That is our story. Of course, I never kept the four cards, who thinks of doing that?

  6. Average number of complaints to EC during any federal election: 400 to 500.

    With almost 1,000,000 more ballots cast, the 2011 election has, to date, approx. 700 similar complaints.

    Do the math – draw your own conclusions.

    All figures from EC reports to date.

  7. We already have anon,Conservatives win majority,Liberal's lose.Case closed

  8. What's fascinating is how many voters who apparently received the misleading calls had previously advised CPC canvassers that they weren't supporting their party. Even more fascinating is the willingness of some to believe that this is evidence of an EC/LPC conspiracy to influence the election. Why do many small c conservatives view the CPC or elements thereof as incapable of engaging in such dirty tricks?

    1. Does it even make sense Mike that the CPC would do this? We know the Liberals have broken election laws and continue to do dirty tricks like VikiLeaks and possibly the Anonymous attempted shakedown which is highly illegal.

    2. I'll be fascinated to hear what Elections Canada has to say about it since they have cautioned the media about speculation.

      Which of course, the media will ignore. And the opposition will doubly ignore unless of course they have concerns that EC will finger them as well. But will it be called dirty tricks or something else? That's fascinating as well.

      I'm also be fascinated to know what it takes to get an ex-RCMP investigator to leak his point of view to the media. Dinner and a few beers? That's a cheap date! Yes, yes, speculation... but in the absence of facts or context or a guilty person; the imagination runs rampant doesn't it?

      700 complaints after such media fireworks on the grand conspiracy theory has more fizzle than sizzle. No charbroiled steak, just hamburger helper.

      Now that the 31,000 complaints has been cut down to size; I'll be fascinated to know the break down and nature of the remaining 700 complaints.

      Of course, the new math is fascinating as well. There were 281 callbacks on the bogus EC calls to one phone number. (That of course is a fact.) But according to someone's math, only 2% actually respond to robocalls with a callback; so it follows that 10,000 bogus calls were made. (And that is not a fact.) But for the sake of argument, if it were true; that would mean the 98% hang up or dismiss them outright.

      That something unseemly happened is a fact. I don't dismiss what people say happened to them or how it happened. But in the absence of context; small c conservatives, such as myself, prefer to wait for the facts before we burn somebody at the stake.

      So I'd ask you MikeAdamson; why do the anything but conservative crowd think it's impossible that their own party would not have engaged in dirty tricks as well? There seems to be evidence that this is so and that it's part of the opposition culture; it you consider the "issue based" robocalls with fake caller and no party affiliation.

      I can hear you on that one. It's not the same; it's a lesser kind of fraud. And the Vikileaks expose? Well, he deserved that. The unjustified attack on Mike Meier. Well, he does business with the Conservatives; he MUST be corrupt.

      Go ahead and tell me, that nastiness isn't part of the opposition culture. Or you could just ask Pat Martin.

      It's also fascinating to me that when the very plausible scenario of human error accounting for a portion of the complaints is dismissed outright by the left as an attack on Elections Canada.

      Of course, it's anything but an attack. It's a valid question; one that needs to be answered. But the opposition doesn't want to ask any question that deviates from the narrative that they want the public to have about the conservatives.

      Something happened in Guelph alright. It's sounding like duelling nasty tricks and it's questionable at this point whether any riding results were affected.

      I'll be listening when EC decides to tell us what they have learned from Pierre Poutine. (Not a fact, just speculation.)

    3. Good points!
      -- Gabby in QC

    4. I should have mentioned my "Good points!" refer to Anonymous @ Mar 16, 2012 08:25 AM
      -- Gabby in QC

  9. CBC is sure knee deep in this...doing their "investigations". Batman & Robin say it's pure "GOLD". The only thing new in the CBC smear last night, was the 31,000 "contacks" from Lead now. ca(which CBC never mentions) was wittled down to 700...which will be cut in half once again.Their report tried to make it sound like this was on top of the 31,000....NEW complaints. CBC needs to be shut down and Mileski is a fraud.
    Now they say a meeting took place by PM Harper and 4 top brass to be asked what they know. At Issue with Mansbridge said this. HOW THE HELL DO THEY KNOW WHATS SAID AT A MEETING or even what its about? More CBC speculation to rally up the Liberal/NDP base to try and give those rebel rousers some credibility for protests?Then they say there were robocalls made by PM harper. DUH...I got was PM harpers own voice. PM Harper didn't do what the frank Valeriote team did...hide and disguise themselves.CBC just trying to make it look like PM Harper did something here. Sickening , sickening. sickening.

  10. I watched the program At Issue last night,and I heard them say that the caucus met in the PM's office,and Coyne said yeah,and they made sure we media knew about it,as then it'll look like the PM's doing something about it.Chantel Hebert is the only one that talks sensible on that program,and you can learn something from her when she speaks.

  11. Gerald

    And Chantel Hubert looked at Coyne and Mansbridge in disgust...did you see her face?She knows they are full of it. Just a bunch of Mansbridges wooden puppets, agreeing with him. I'd like to see Chantel unleashed but she has to earn a living too i guess...$450 a show is easy money.
    If she disagrees with the masters she would be replaced with Ditchburn.

    Ontario Girl

  12. @Anons
    I would honestly be very surprised if it turns out that the CPC devised and executed a plan to confuse non-Conservative voters on voting day. I would not be surprised if individuals or elements within the CPC decided to push the envelope in some ridings and adopted tactics that are well known in Republican circles in the US. That the CPC has relationships with American consultants,pollsters,gurus,etc. who work with the Republican party and with conservative groups generally is not a secret and it's not far fetched to believe that individuals within the party have adopted some of those tactics.

    Obviously the scheme must be proven but it's certainly within the realm of realistic possibility, much more probable IMO than some sort of LPC/EC/CBC conspiracy. If there is evidence of other parties engaging in such trickery then I say bring it forward and Canadians can judge them too.

    1. I wouldn't be surprised if people pushed the envelope either. It's equally plausible to me that the opposition does the same and this becomes an escalating game.

      But I don't accept that this is a grand conservative strategy to defraud voters any more than you accept that this is some kind of LPC/EC/CBC conspiracy.

      However, there was a push by the CBC and Leadnow and the opposition parties to skew public perception that this was a grand conspiracy that could overturn election results. You can't deny this. And I object to this kind of manipulation and falsehood.

      There is another part of the opposition narrative that you mention; and it's equating the CPC with the republicans. This has been going on since George Bush. It's another form of manipulation and it's disingenuous. Associating Stephen Harper with the inane antics of the Republican party in hopes that some bad press will rub off by making the association. Is this not in fact taking lessons from the Americans on attack ads?

      There has been testimony of conservative "vote suppression". The question is why it doesn't get equal cover in the news.

    2. "That the CPC has relationships with American consultants,pollsters,gurus,etc. who work with the Republican party and with conservative groups generally is not a secret ..."

      Funny how it's considered somehow sinister if the Conservatives borrow some ideas from south of the border, although I think our Conservatives could teach them a thing or two.

      Is borrowing from down south sinister also in the following cases? 
Saturday Oct. 28, 2006
      "… James Carville, the man known as the Ragin' Cajun, spoke to 1,200 Ontario Liberals at their annual general meeting in Toronto Saturday, the last such gathering before the party tries for re-election next October. …
      New Democrat Cheri DiNovo, who survived a Liberal smear campaign to win a recent Toronto byelection, said Saturday that the appearance of Carville meant the Liberals had learned little from their loss to her.
      "I'm the perfect example of the Liberals trying U.S.-style electioneering in a byelection and it blowing up in their faces,'' said DiNovo. ..."
      “… After the Clinton victory, Carville began to focus on foreign consulting. Since that time, Carville’s political clients have included the following: ... the Liberal Party of Canada; …”

      “… The Liberals are turning up the heat on efforts to change their fundraising practices. In 2008, the Liberals purchased the Voter Activation Network system—known as VAN. It is the same system that was used by the American Democrats in Barack Obama’s successful presidential campaign—to bring their information database up to scratch, a vital element of successful fundraising. …”

      -- Gabby in QC

  13. iceman it is so legal as long as the polling station or the ec officer who is over seeing the polling station phone the other polling station to let them know so they cross the name off so there isn't double voting. and if you have ID like I said you show your ec card it is legal and someone to vouch that you live in the riding and you can't make it home. other wise what is wrong with that same amoun t of ballots same person. not like I can double vote. and they see your ec card to prove you can't get back in time to vote again. ec said it was alrite about that. so you should brush up on the rules my friend. not ellegal not like I was in a different riding and voted at the polling station.

    1. I have the election workers manual right here in front of me. Just because they let you vote, that doesn't mean it was legal. Trust me, I know election law better than you do.

  14. okay well they phoned my polling station and that polling station crossed off my name. so just telling you what they did and the phoned EC to find out about it. and they okayed it. sounds to me that EC is corrupt then. Or the fact that there was no way I could double vote since the distance from 1 poling station to the other and I had to vote after work

    1. That means when they counted the votes, the box you were supposed to vote in was 1 short, and the one you voted in had too many. Number of ballots in the box are supposed to match the number of people who voted in the box. There's a reason for that, if you think about it.

      I'm not saying that you knowingly broke the law, I'm saying that the election workers who did this for you did not understand the actual election rules. Improperly trained election workers is a far greater problem than robocalls. Vouching is supposed to be a last resort, but the person vouching has to be in your PD. If you are at the wrong poll location, then nobody there to vote can legally vouch for you. The only people who can are the ones where you are supposed to be voting.

      That's the law, at least in 2011. Voting where you are not eligible is actually supposed to carry a $5000 fine or 5 years in jail.

    2. Sorry, $5000 or 5 years is the maximum penalty (which would be reserved for people who voted and where not legally allowed to vote anywhere).

  15. sorry about spelling error anyways ec just tossed out 30,300 fraudulent complaints said on sunnews so there isn't many complaints.

  16. Journos are falling all over themselves trying to one-up each other. Once in a while, one of them says something of substance, as in the following.

    "Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand cautioned against reading too much into the numbers until the investigation is completed.

    "I advise caution about drawing conclusions based on possibly inaccurate and incomplete information," he said.

    His warning fell on deaf ears in the Commons, with the NDP saying there were 700 cases of fraud even though Elections Canada has come to no such conclusions — including about the official Opposition's own participation in alleged misconduct. "

    The NDP in question was Comartin. To him I say "take that you weasel".

  17. Now CBC terry Mileski doesn't have the 31,000 "complaints" to throw around, so his Conservative smear tonight was 45000 phone calls were made. He was on a bogus rant again tonight.he used a cut clip of Dean del Mastro to give a false impression, as per CBC usual. Ezra levant has a video up on Sun news website bringing down that bogus CBC report from last night with that hack Mileski and a link to the liberals on the anonymous web site.

  18. What Dean said that was reported..he explained other things not in this story

    Phone calls directing voters to the wrong polling stations in the last federal election could have been mistakes, and people should stop jumping to conclusions, Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro says.

    Del Mastro, who has been leading his party's defence in the controversy over live and automated election phone calls, said nobody has come forward to say they didn't vote because they first went to the wrong polling station.

    "So where are these people? Where are these people? Where are these people saying that I got the call, I went to the wrong station, and then I didn't vote?" Del Mastro said on CBC's Power & Politics.

    "There haven’t been any. No one has stepped forward and said that."

    "Some of these things, as I've already indicated, could have well been mistakes. I don't understand why folks jump to these things and run to a conclusion that they have no evidence of."

  19. the opposition are eating crow tonight anyways