Saturday, February 18, 2012

Has Vic Toews Been Treated Fairly?

Today's poll question; has Justice Minister Vic Toews been treated fairly this week? On Tuesday he introduced a government bill to help police catch child pornographers, which had many on the left and some on the right going bananas expecting to be persecuted like child predators. By Thursday the CBC was promoting places on Twitter where you could go to attack Vic personally. One Twitter feed with a House of Commons IP address went so far as to post sensitive details from Toews personal life. All this because he introduced a bill to catch child predators, then made the ill advised comment that if you do not support the legislation then you support child pornography.

Liberal MP Wayne Easter seems to think he deserves what he's getting, but I'd rather hear what you have to say. Has this now gone too far?


  1. You either stand with Internet or you support Hollywood pornographers and Sony Music profiteers. This is just the beginning of ACTA fight. Vic Toews is a PR disaster for the government.

  2. The question is has his family, his former babysitter and the Canadian public been given appropriate public service?

    I, for one, would rather know these things in advance in order to NOT elect someone of poor moral character into a position of power. The ramifications of electing those who are of poor judgement implies corruption and abuse of power are more likely -- which is not good for Canadians.

    1. Except the facts were known, and Vic Toews got re-elected.

      No justification for smearing his entire family.

  3. Although I agree with the basic premiss that stupid politicians need to have the fear of the public put back into them and if we don't stand up and protect our freedoms they will all be slowly taken from us I can not condone attacks on innocent people to do it. Leave his family out of it.

  4. Has Vic Toews been treated fairly? A qualified no.

    • I cannot understand the mistrust even some conservatives have expressed against the bill. Some of them sound as distrustful of government and law enforcement as the 9/11 truthers.

    • Minister Toews's over-the-top rhetoric was uncalled for. Replying to a question from Liberal critic Francis Scarpaleggia, Toews said: "He can either stand with us or with the child pornographers."
    But his opponents have been no less over-the-top. They talk of warrantless access, police state, Stasi-like, Stalinesque, Orwellian tactics ... and those are the "gentler" criticisms.
    Something else I don't understand ... his opponents don't trust him (and by extension the government) nor law enforcement, so why would they trust any judge's decision to grant a warrant?

    • Setting up the minister for ridicule with the two infamous twitter accounts is the lowest form of political opposition.
    But Minister Baird should not have lowered himself to the same level by accusing the NDP of being behind one of those accounts merely on the basis of one speculative media report.

    All in all, not a particularly stellar performance on all sides of the political spectrum. Sad, really.
    -- Gabby in QC

  5. By the way ... Wayne Easter's moralising on this episode is really hypocritical:
    "If you’re going to – if you’re going to attack people the way that Vic Toews attacked people, then some of that’s going to come back at you, there’s no question about that.”

    Need I remind him of his unrelenting attacks on Helena Guergis while she was still a member of the Conservative caucus ... but conveniently changed his tune once she became an independent?
    -- Gabby in QC

  6. I find the posting about Vic's personal life distasteful and would prefer that political debate not include such stuff. OTOH, the CPC in particular but all Canadian parties at one time or another, have demonstrated that innuendo and irrelevance is fair game in political debate and advertising, Vic's hyperbolic statement being just the latest example. I don't like it, but if you're going to sling it then you're going to get slung at. The sooner all sides step back from the line then the better we'll all be IMO.

  7. Someone had those documents and was trying to get the media to publish them before Vic made that stmt.
    He made the stmt Tuesday. So, how did vikileaks get them on Tuesday and out in that twitter account so fast.
    Someone was just waitng for an opportunity. Or maybe they had them and no one would publish them prior to the election. Something doesn't add up.
    Both Mahar and Don Martin have said they were offered them months ago but sat on them. Neither will name names, as that might their ability to get other leaks in the future.

  8. Vic was sold a bill of goods by partisan legal beagles in his department, who more than likely crafted the LGR "laws". They made him look bad, or this government has other motives for introducing the legislation.

    I don't hear the opppos claiming "vote for us, we'll rescind it", do you? Nah, they want this law for their own purposes.

  9. It was never about kiddie porn, they slapped that label on at the last second as a fig-leaf. No, this was always about something else- giving our fine upstanding police forces the right to snoop on us without bothering with those pesky warrant things.

    This Bill is the single largest blunder the CPC has made so far, and I doubt the CPC really understands just how badly they've shot up their carefully crafted image with this ill-considered and despicable Bill. And not just with the centre-left fence sitters, but with the Conservative base.

    Unless it's withdrawn (and maybe even then), we're looking at a Conservative minority next election.
    If they're lucky.

    1. I agree ENTIRELY with you, Anonymous on Feb 18, at 2012 09:27 AM.

      I would also add that Vic Toews should resign or Harper should FIRE HIM.

    2. ''...This Bill is the single largest blunder the CPC has made so far...''

      same thing multiple 'anonymous' commentors said about the long form census,
      and changes to the OAS and just about every bill the CPC has tried to advance.

    Toews now says he was unaware of elements of his own law. Before you start calling people accomplices of child pornographers, he might want to read his own law to see if criticism is justified.

  11. No, he has not been treated fairly. The hysteria and ignorance surrounding this issue, along with the smear campaign against Minister Toews that followed is so over the top stupid, one wonders what the hell is wrong with people. I can understand why people may have concerns with this legislation, and thats what committee's are for, but the light your hair on fire, hysterical response is outrageous. Get a grip people! It's mystifying to me when people cannot recognize an opposition, media co-ordinated witch hunt when they see one, and even more mystifying when they go along with it!

  12. seems like many people here are really afraid of this new sneak and peek internet bill????????
    Ya know what they say? Ya got nothing to hide ya shouldn’t have nothing to fear?

    I’m all for the police having powers to search without a warrant! Warrants and rights only protect the guilty.

  13. "Warrants and rights only protect the guilty"...hmmm. Could you be any more foolish? I think you can top that if you really try.

    1. anon was just trolling to fan the flames....

  14. To focus on the question: yes, Vic was treated as any clown who knows that the people who drafted his law are out to make him look bad and even by his own admission, didn't read "his" bill before bringing it to Parliament. Wayne is right, Vic got what he deserved, as any politician should for failing to do his job properly.

    Don't give me this crap that con supporters are shills for the other side. I as a con supporter know that the public service is the "unofficial opposition", Harper alluded to the Supreme Court and the public service infiltration of partisan Liberal/NDP into their ranks, what happened to Vic? Didn't get the memo?

    These lawyers, working under Vic's direction were the same skunks who wrote the LGR. They are not on the conservative's side. The whole civil service "industry" is not on this government's side. When will the cons WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE? Deal with it Vic, or resign.

    Vic got everything he deserved, especially from his own supporters. Dumbo. As conservative supporters, we have an obligation to kick, whip, thrash our representatives when they screw up.

    Don't call me a (spit) Liberal when I do!

  15. Had to post this here as I didn't care to have to jump through all the hoops to post it where I had intended it. Still on topic generally in terms of dealing with the substance of the issue. I don't have time to comment fully on the treatment of the minister, however I don't find it appropriate at all by any measure.

    anyway, onto my talking points.

    No lawful person of any stripe should be against the bill.

    How to fix "exceptional circumstances" aspects: Forget warrants all together, and use a system where the police actions are fully recorded* & monitored in real-time by multiple third-party operators and all logs and reports submitted to the privacy commission etc, anytime these methods are put into use.
    *confidentially on a need to know basis and not for public consumption. (Public doesn't need to know the precise methods only that they have been legally cleared for use. Criminals already are too many steps ahead and don't take long to ketch up to the latest law enforcement techniques. I'm sure the the defense attorneys wouldn't want everything their client did immediately open to public eyes without due coarse via abrupt Leaks. All truth comes out in due course, eventually. Public & victim safety paramount.)
    Only on duty investigators & qualified authorized staff would have access, so no rogue snooping or limitless access.
    This will save time and allow for up to the second responsiveness & adaption to situational changes and technological advancements.
    That isn't to say you shouldn't have a judges excluded from the process, I just don't feel comfortable leaving all the decision making power in the hands of runaway liberal judges sympathetic to the victimizes & their habbits!

    They shouldn't have to wait on a judge when in pursuit of a child lurer.

    (Relatedly-Unrelated)Why fear-mongering should stop:

    "According to the RCMP it is impossible to track down who uploads music or movies to the Internet. The police simply do not have the time nor the resources to go after file sharers. "Piracy for personal use is no longer targeted", said Noël St-Hilaire, head of copyright theft investigations of the RCMP in an interview with Le Devoir. St-Hilaire explained that they would rather focus on crimes that actually hurt consumers such as copyright violations related to medicine and electrical appliances, as well as ones that affect organized crime." ~sloppily copy and pasted from:

    Same applies with the average internet user. This is not part of some silly conspiracy to control us. They couldn't even if they wanted to. The governments of the world are hardly all powerful, but are rather full of bloat & waste, corruption and so on. The Anon hacks are actually doing more to protect the secretive, sophisticated & organized internet pedophile rings than anyone's personal liberties. (which they care little for, especially with whom they disagree!)
    You would think they would be all about exposing the political power players behind human trafficking of abused children but apparently not. Privacy above all else for some & their friends, but not others. Now whose the secretive Cabal? friggin hypocrites!

  16. "Don't give me this crap that con supporters are shills for the other side. I as a con supporter know that the public service is the "unofficial opposition", Harper alluded to the Supreme Court and the public service infiltration of partisan Liberal/NDP into their ranks, what happened to Vic? Didn't get the memo?"

    I would assume he is of the character not to assume the worst of people, to a fault I may add, he perhaps let his naivete get the best of him. Having a conservative majority, the first in a long long time, shouldn't be a breeding ground for complacency. They need to keep their guard up. Especially in province that is still very left (and still being run into the ground financially for it).

  17. Question is
    did Toews exwife and current family deserve to have their lives smeared like this?
    Were Trudeau and Goodale justified in helping spread the dirt?
    Should 'anonymous' sources be cheered on when they threaten 'more' dirt coming unless Toews does what they want?

    Anyone who says Toews deserves this because he made an off hand comment to a critic in the House,
    is just wrong.

    This is out and out cyber bullying.

  18. I remember when the Lisa Raitt/assistant conversation tape was left in a bathroom somehow. The media got hold of it but instead of returning the tape to its rightful owners, the tape was aired then discussed over and over and over.
    The police didn't invade Raitt's and assistance private taping- it was the media.

    I sooner trust the police to invade my privacy for safety sake of the nation than for the media to invade my privacy, my bank accounts my personal life to suit themselves in ratings.
    If the Police had found the tape, they will either call its owner to retrieve it or if no owner comes forward nor no name is on the tape. there is only one thing the police have to do is listen to it find who it belongs to then call that person to come forward to take it back. But never would the police for the share fun of it air the tape. THE MEDIA WILL.

    IT is not the POLICE that I am worry about it is the media.

    In this world no one has privacy especially when you are in the internet, facebook twitter telephone; even walking down the street you are being watched.

  19. Invaders of privacy without a warrant which one should I choose:
    I take the Police any day, at least they are doing it for a dam good reason whereas the media do it for pleasure and ruination to a particular party or its mps they despise.
    And believe me, the media has done so already.

    It wasn't the police that freely went to the CPC blding it WAS the EC that called the police.

    The ndpqf got money from the American unions and so far the police wasn't called in by the EC to investigate.