Thursday, April 5, 2012

How Much Money Have We Actually Spent On F-35s?

The Canadian media sure has been busy lately reporting on the F-35 cost estimate "fiasco, mess, debacle, crisis, catastrophe, etc, etc", and I've been pouring over these articles trying to find how much money we have actually physically spent on the F-35 program to date. Thus far all I can seem to find is a few hundred million forked out by the Chretien Liberals when they originally signed us up at the beginning of this joint development project with our military allies. This fiasco is much ado about estimates, as Lockheed Martin has slowly boggled the project. Andrew Coyne has called this "a spectacular illustration of how our system of government has gone to hell". Ivison says Canadians were played for fools. It looks like the National Post asked every writer on staff to write a rant about this "crisis" with a different apocalyptic synonym in the title.

Perhaps the government should have admitted that the project was going sideways a few months earlier, but I'm willing to wager that Lockheed Martin hasn't exactly been completely honest about the state of affairs thus far. They stand to lose quite a lot of money if the program crashes completely and would be providing their customers with the most optimistic appraisals of the project. If there is a silver lining in all of this "mess", it's that the program has crashed and burned before we actually bought the damned planes! Unlike the BC NDP dropping half a billion dollars on Fast Ferries, which we did not learn until after they were in the water that they did not meet requirements and were God awful machines.

The worst part of the "F-35 Fiasco" is that our timeline for acquiring jets to replace our dying fleet has been set back. I'd suggest buying second hand equipment from the British, but that didn't work out too well for the Chretien Liberals. It does underscore how terrible the previous government was at military procurements. They cancelled a contract for helicopters that it turned out we actually needed, they signed us up for the F-35 program which now suddenly doomed to failure, and those second hand submarines they bought have been a disaster. For crying out loud, we didn't even get those boats back to Canada before one caught fire, killing a sailor! The Conservatives inherited a mess from the previous government, and have tried to make the best of a bad situation.

If a dispute over cost estimates and project specifications is the worst F35-gate has to offer, it is still an upgrade over Liberal government.

25 comments:

  1. Canada has spent $354 million on the F35 over the last 15 years with estimates of 500 to 800 million in contracts received.

    As the lame stream media is more concerned with the latest faux scandal here is a link to Harper's Q&A for over an hour after the trilateral summit. Excellant insight into our PMO.
    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/HarperP

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    1. Faux scandal? The auditor-general says Harper lied during the lst election about the F-35s.

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    2. He lied by.... Not answering questions that weren't asked by reporters? Interesting. And when did you stop beating your wife?

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  2. How much?

    "Canada has been an active Tier 3 partner in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, participating in both the Concept Demonstration Phase ($10 million) and the System Development and Demonstration Phase ($150 million). This USD $160 million has included funding from both the Department of National Defence, and from Technology Partnerships Canada (TPC). In the Production, Sustainment and Follow-on Development Phase of the F-35 program, it is estimated that Canada’s contribution will exceed C$ 550 million (currently about even with USD) over 44 years. As of September 2011, the government had disbursed about C$ 335 million toward participation in the JSF Program, and related support to Canadian industry."

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  3. When you cry wolf over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and every time it turns out to be much ado about nothing then don't be surprised people tune you out. That's exactly what is happening with the stupid liberal party.

    I hate the NDP's politics but at least they have enough respect for our system to actually put worth alternative policies instead of demanding for resignations in puffed up rants.

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  4. A few months ago, when the hounds were demanding the exact estimate of the cost of these planes, the reply was cautious; we do not know,. This was seconded by high ranking members of the USAF who also said they were not exactly sure what the final cost of the plane in specific configurations. Now they are being blamed for making an erroneus statement.
    Bottom line is..no contract was signed and no money was put out. Media and opposition on their latest rant, as if they would do any better.

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    1. Harper assured us that each plane would be $75 billion. The auditor general has now exposed that lie. Harper told us for the last 6 months there was a guaranteed fixed price contract that was signed. That appears to also have been a bald faced lie. Harper is pure lying scum.

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  5. The lame media basically rewrote the AG report to suit their agenda.

    I find it rather ironic that the opposition haven't protested to Chretien for spending a quarter of billion dollars on a contract which they didn't bother to fulfill for our men women in uniform. Had they done their job we wouldn't be in this mess today.

    Be prepared for another 'gate' against the CPC on the 56billion dollars EI which the liberals took and refuse to repay. therefore and be prepared for the CPC to take the blame echoed and re-echoed by the media.

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  6. I am waiting for the media to point out that it was the Chretien Liberals that signed the contract in the first place.

    Wasn't Bob Rae a LIEberal by then? And he is demanding the PM quit over this?

    Doesn't he realise that his party came in third place and he tries to make demands as if he were in official opposition. Notoce he does not give advice on how to fix another inherited LIEberal problem, but wants Harper to quit. Typical LIEberal.


    Clown Party

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  7. OTTAWA — The Harper Conservative government would have known that the F-35 was estimated to cost $25 billion, not the $14.7-billion figure the public was told in the weeks before the last federal election, Auditor General Michael Ferguson said Thursday.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/05/federal-cabinet-knew-f-35s-true-25-billion-cost-before-election-auditor-general/

    Turns out the Cons are liars too.

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    1. So then this whole controversy is about who used what estimate and when? I hate to burst your bubble, but all estimates are simply educated guesses, none guaranteed to be accurate. We are talking about hypothetical money that was never actually spent.

      Kevin Page for example, makes a lot of estimates, and he's wrong as often as he's right.

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    2. They campaigned on a figure they knew was wrong.

      And the AG harper just appointed has now let us know that.

      If you think nothing will come of this, you're delusional.

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    3. All estimates are guesses! So they used one instead of another, it's a coin toss which one will turn out to be right. These are also estimates that go 30-50 years into the future with an extremely high margin of error. Do you really think Kevin Page knows how much an oil change will cost in 2030??

      You don't know much about forecasting, do you anonymous?

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    4. They knew the $25 billion figure at the time. It hasn't changed.

      There's a difference between forecasting and lying.

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    5. So, using the lower estimate rather than the higher estimate is lying in your estimation? I would estimate that 90% of Canadians could not care less about this.

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    6. They've been arguing over which estimates to use for a while now, and is not a new revelation. Most of that debate was regarding very long term projections of the maintenance costs.

      How much do we currently spend maintaining an aging fleet that is nearing the end of its life? That number has to be pretty high, yet is seldom reported.

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  8. Even us simple folk knew for the past year or more the budget was $9 Billion for F35 purchase and an ESTIMATED $14 billion over 30 years for maintenance.

    This adds up to $24 Billion does it not?

    NOW the SAME media that reported the costs for purchase AND maintenance at $24 billion last year are acting like this is a NEW budgetted figure?
    Sheesh!

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    1. Exactly Lorraine,it is like saying that the car your going to buy in a couple of years is going to be 10,000 maybe but if you included gas, insurance,tires, maintenance etc. means the car over its lifetime will cost maybe $25,000. Ridiculous. Another faux scandal buy the so called Canadian press.

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  9. The Liberals didn't have most of the media against them,as the CPC does.Chretien had protection from the media.If they wrote what they knew about him,he would've only got the one majority govt.,and maybe not even that.

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  10. Oh I guess as long as a thief gets caught before he steals then there's no crime right? Cause that's the equivalent of the whitewashing here.

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    1. I fail to see how paying what eventually is market price to a foreign owned company of which the governing party has no stake is theft. You say the government lied, but the $25 Billion figure which included mandatory retrofits at the 20 year mark, has been in the public eye since the beginning of February, 2011. As it is, the government has frozen the funds for the program, they are reassigning the procurement to a panel of deputy ministers and something WILL get purchased to replace the Hornets, likely something that will cost a comparable amount over the next 30 years as the F-35s. The difference is that we'll cease to have fighter jets as of 2020 with no replacements due until after that.

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  11. How Much Money Have We Actually Spent On F-35s? A refreshingly relevant question in all the fog and fussing about this issue.

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  12. I guess this latest smear campaign, lets call it Jetgate signals the flatulent end of the last Media manufactured smear campaign "Robogate". Jetgate is just as empty as Robogate, but the Media "war" against the Government will continue regardless. When Jetgate runs out of steam and the hysterical Media led lynch mob turns to another "scandal" I suspect the same results. The good thing is the Media and the other opposition party's have let everyone know their intentions of strategy to try and bring down the Government Canadians elected, against the wishes of the Media. The Media and the other opposition party's will scream "scandal" every week, whether there actually is a "scandal" or not doesn't matter, it's all about building up a narrative they will use to attack the Government 3 years from now. The hysteria coming from the Media is laughable and entirely predictable in it's dishonesty and desperation. The only "scandal" I see is the despicable behaviour of the Media, and illustrates just how corrupt and morally bankrupt they are.

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  13. It is sickening beyond belief, how the conservatives are being painted as if somehow, BILLIONS have been spend on fighter aircraft (no orders have even taken place), yet here we have Smitherman, responsible for BILLIONS wasted, of taxpayers money, and the media yawn, and turn on the Harper government, with top of news, screaming headlines, demanding McKay step down.

    So McKay, who was kept in the dark, IS responsible, where the buck stops with him, according to the opposition and the media. Yet for Smitherman, HE blames the bureaucrats, and the media say NOTHING.

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  14. All this is playing into the PM's plan to get the best price for plane. Never underestimate the PM, create a scandal, lockheed martin will reduce the price. Harper is a freaking genius.

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