Friday, April 6, 2012

"New" Old Revelations In F35-gate

As F35-gate continues, there are many suggesting and saying that Stephen Harper deliberately misled parliament and the Canadian people by campaigning on an optimistic estimate of the cost of the F-35 program. They said $15 billion, somebody else said $25 billion, all of which were estimates of future costs, none guaranteed to be accurate. Were the Canadian people kept in the dark about the alternative estimates of future costs (where no actual cheques have been written)? Well Kevin Page was on the Soloman Show 2 weeks before the 2011 election saying that the program would cost $30 billion, leading to a major headline piece in the Globe and Mail. So who had what number when? Well EVERYBODY had Kevin Page's numbers prior to the election. The Liberals, the NDP, the media, and the major debate was over maintenance costs; like Kevin Page can guarantee the cost of an oil change in 2030 (and with nobody saying how much we spend to maintain our dying fleet).

These recycled old debates prompted Bob Rae this week to demand the Prime Minister's resignation, but there are no new revelations in this latest controversy. Of course the government knew that there were conflicting estimates, EVERYBODY DID! It was public knowledge prior to the Tories winning a majority! They didn't steal anything from taxpayers, and this debate over what estimate to use was being debated in the media weeks before the election. There's nothing new here, other than the auditor general reporting about what was being reported over a year ago. As the CBC reported March 10th 2011:
Page warns that the total pricetag for the F-35s is subject to change due to a number of factors including: possible modifications to the technical specifications of the aircraft, any reductions in the number of planes countries participating in the Joint Strike Fighter program end up purchasing and the "circumstances prevailing" when the planes are due for a mid-life overhaul.

He also points out that his analysis is based largely on historical data and that the possibility exists that the F-35 deal won't fit with historical cost trends. "This means that it is possible that the F-35 constitutes an outlier, in that its costs might be significantly different relative to what the historical trend would suggest," the report states.

And I'm done linking the National Post. Anyone who wants to link dump those articles, they are destined for the recycling bin. At this point, I'd rather read the Globe and Mail, and that ain't saying much. Kelly MacParland is damned near the only writer left at Postmedia worth reading. The rest of their writing staff has turned into an anti-government clown car every time there is a new controversy.

30 comments:

  1. Yeah.

    I'm just watching the CBC's political panel and enjoying watching Andrew Coyne get all worked up about this. At the 10 minute mark of the segment he rants, "elections aren't being fought on true premises...how bad does it have to get?"

    Yeah, yeah, whatever. I love how the oh-so diligent media never bothered to look into the false premise of a leader campaigning while terminally ill, lying about his health to Canadians --that was totally fine. Nothing to see here folks. But the week the CBC loses 100 million, they suddenly has a scandal of money that could have been pissed away, but wasn't? What?

    Providing hard numbers on a project like the F35 just isn't possible. If the media had any credibility they'd be explaining that, but they won't.

    But hey, I can do some pretty simple math. Let's say the F35 costs us 30 billion and we have it for 40 years. I know where I can find a billion dollars a year savings to fund it.

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    1. I totally agree with Anon.Chretien was a dictator and did what he wanted to do,with the media's backing,but those days are hopefully over.If Rae keeps it up he's going to have a heart attack or stroke.That man really looks out of shape.When he finishes his rants in Question Period,he practically falls back in his seat,and sometimes almost falls down.

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    2. Geezez , Coynes calm on there . I don't know if you follow him on twittter or not but on there he's non-stop rabid anti-Harper all the time . The $400.00 for a 20 minute gig where sometimes he doesn't do much more than grunt in agreement with Heberrt or the other panelist must be in danger .He and O'Mally are like tag-team wrestling without a referee.Every question period or committee it's oh my god they're reading the talking points . o my god shes memorised the talking points or oh my god he strayed from the talking points The opposition standing there lieing for 2 minutes before they ask a talking points question never seems to get noticed however . I thought they were going to try and start a revolution on Thursday . They must be incredibly frustrated watching the imperfect conservatives governing in their beloved liberals rightful place.

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  2. Lamestream continues to focus on fuelling outrage over the Govt discounting or not sharing the higher estimates they were privy too.

    Desperate times in opposition, media when they hang out our military and Govt. for not accepting the higher estimates as FACT.

    Did the minority Govt. move 2 slow, react to defensively when delays, forecasts were likely to increase the costs of this purchase?

    Yes.

    Did the Govt. react any differently than other would be expected in a minority?

    No.

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  3. Why no outrage over the money the libs spent to start this F35 thingy, and where was the outrage when the libs bought used subs that have already cost one life. If one pays attention to the US media and govt, this plane was in serious trouble by O when he cut funding to the company and the budget for it. And as it was not to be purchased for several years, no money has been put out for it. What did the liberals pay for cancelling the helicopter deal. Rae should keep his mouth shut, or perhaps look up the spending goofs his party did before he joined it. He might not remember, but we do.
    And Rae/mulcair should remember that the ballot question last May was, coalition or majority. We were aware of the problems with the F35 and as a final decision was year away, it did not affect our vote.

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  4. Has the CBC ever endorsed any government purchasing military equipment? Not in my lifetime.

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    1. All of us conservatives have to stop watching the CBC and CTV,and I mean everyone.I don't watch it anymore.I used to watch them while eating breakfast,but now I listen to country music on the radio.I feel a lot better not listening to those Harper haters.Why would anyone torture themselves by watching them?Summer will soon be here,and then they'll be gone for awhile.I imagine a lot of those young NDPPQ will go to Las Vegas and gamble away all of the money we pay them for bad mouthing our CPC.STOP WATCHING THE CBC AND CTV.

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    2. We have to watch because its important to stay abreast of what lying narratives they are weaving and trying to establish as fact in order to smear the conservatives.

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    3. Aiken on Sun news just as bad . Bob Rae and Gerry Byrne were both feeding him shit on a stick last night and Aiken was beggin fer more . Not just cbc and ctv

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  5. Someone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to the F35 and the costs.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2012/03/26/f-35-fighter-costs-six-ways-to-make-a-bargain-seem-unaffordable/

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  6. Rae better be very careful, he is looking very haggard and tired. Will he even be up for a leadership fight or to fight an election in 2015, just as an MP. Buying military equipment is complicated and we the public do not need to know all the decisions that are made. Perhaps the opposition is upset that our enemies can't find out what we will buy and how it works or what it can do.
    Somethings must be kept secret.

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    1. I agree with Mary,and PM Harper is a great leader,and there's one way to describe the Harper Hater's,jealously,Coyne included.

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  7. Glad you are on it Iceman. The government has an oppourtunity to fix military procurement forevor. This is a good thing. No more EH101 or crap submarine fiascos.

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  8. Did anyone hear Ivison on P&P yesterday tell everyone the reason Harper wants the F35 is so he can launch First Strike Stealth missions on Chinese aircraft carriers in 30 years time.

    Really. And up until now Ivison came across as having some sanity and journalistic cred.

    Maybe he thought he was on the comedy channel

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    1. have you seen the aircraft carriers China is building ? have you seen the size of Chinas military ? North Koreas ? google is quick and free.

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  9. So...because Page (who is a HERO) said this before the election, it somehow ablates misleading Canadians during that election? Pathetic. Are you even trying?

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    1. You mean like when Cretin actually promised to get rid of the HST the fired Nunziata for trying to make his keep his promise.

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    2. Are you even trying?

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  10. Anon:

    Can you explain where the scandal is?
    So far, all the outrage is on differences of estimates.
    Get that? Estimates.
    Point out who in government benefited financially from this?
    How is this similar to Adscam, where the liberals used a government program to funnel money into their Quebec riding associations?

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    1. The scandal is that the Cabinet knew these planes would be much more costly than they publicly stated during the last election. It's on YouTube. The video doesn't lie just Harper.

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  11. Who believes Kevin Page? He was all set to go to BC and speak to a bunch of Liberals untill he got busted. A Liberal trying to undermine the Conservative Govt. He also thinks OAS is good forever.Whatever suits the opposition agenda, suits the a hole.

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    1. Well I was going to believe him because he predicted the deficits we're in now and has been a stellar honest forecaster, but what's all that to talking to people from a political party barely different that yours?

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  12. Good post, Iceman.

    However, one caution to Conservative representatives participating on panels or ministers answering questions in QP: some of them have said that NO money has been spent on the F-35s.
    That is inaccurate.
    Money has been spent, but not misspent.
    http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201204_02_e_36466.html
    2.23 ...
    ... As of September 2011, the government had disbursed a total of CAN$335 million toward participation in the JSF Program and support to Canadian industry. ..."

    What does "participation in the JSF Program" entail?
    AG's Report (see link above)
    "2.6 The JSF Program is divided into three major phases. At the beginning of each phase, country partners formalized their participation and financial contribution by signing a government-to-government memorandum of understanding (MOU). The following are the three phases:
    • concept demonstration (1997 to 2001);
    • system development and demonstration (2001 to 2018); and
    • production, sustainment, and follow-on development (2006 to 2051). ..."

    Rather than being ambiguous when answering questions, which the opposition and their media cronies use to distort their message, the Conservatives should strive to scrupulously present the facts and nothing else.

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    1. The Conservatives should have been striving to be scrupulous about a year ago.

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  13. Please don't engage in that moronic journalist practice of adding the suffix "-gate" to words to give the impression of some vast conspiracy. It's dumb.

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  14. Thought you might find this interesting. Here is a statement from the PMO that was issued last night.
    http://f.cl.ly/items/3i0I2M2G3f2E1u3f0A2A/PMO%20statement%20April%205.pdf

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  15. sorry Janice didn't mean to come across as snotty , more making fun of Ivison googling and find a fantasy Chinese catamaran aircraft carrier , but apart from that , they bought one from the Ukraine and have pretty much finished refurbishing it , and a bunch , somewhere between 40 and 80 Russian fighter jets . The thing is , who do they think is going to attack them , and for what ? They have nothing the world needs . The rest of world ,especially Canada , has everything the Chinese need .

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  16. statement from the PMO by CBC..no lies and honest estimates

    The government says it responded to the Parliamentary Budget Office in March 2011, estimating the cost of acquiring 65 jets at $9 billion and sustainment costs for maintenance, software programming and logistic support at a further $5.7 billion, for a total cost of $14.7 billion over 20 years.

    The estimates did not include operating and salary costs, the government says, which would be incurred regardless of the aircraft purchased. These costs would amount to $9 billion over 20 years.

    The government says it accepts that these costs should have been included in its report to the PBO.

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  17. We saw the same thing with the Chr├ętien Libs...spin spin spin, whatever presentation works best to get you elected.

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